Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

I've added a Glock 17 (full sized 9mm, Night Sights), to the core of my survival guns.

Thinking about adding a small current production carbine that shares Glock pistol magazines. I like the looks of Kel-Tec Sub-2000 carbine:

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/sub2000.htm

The primary feature I like (aside from magazine compatibility) - is that the Kel-Tec carbine can fold up to a size small enough (16" x 7", 4.0lbs) to easily fit into a small backpack, bookbag, laptop computer bag......this would allow one to pack a carbine and not be suspected that you had a break-down/folded rifle.

Has anyone had any experience with these? Anyone ever even seen/held one?

Youtube demo - 3 minutes long.



I like the idea of a small light weapon that can increase the effective range of my pistol out to 100-150 yards.

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

Good luck finding one! They are very hard to locate these days... I have been bugging my FFL for 3 months to find me one. I already picked up some 33 round Glock 9mm mags. They should go for about $399, but they seem higher now! Recommended retail price is $406 according the the Kel-Tec web site.

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/sub2000.htm

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

Wow ......... you are NOT lying.

I may have to resurrect my UNFREAKIN BELIEVABLE thread one more time.

Dam.


T

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

What is nice, is that Kel-Tec makes several versions....to match a lot of different pistol magazine types in both 9mm and 40S&W.

You can count on about 40% higher velocity due to the carbine barrel length.....so energy goes up by V^2.....so nearly 2X the energy of the pistol....the way I like to think of it is you can deliver pistol muzzle energy at 100+ yards...and ability to print the shots into a 1 foot diameter at 100 - 150 yards.....that is a lot of performance when you can fold it in half and carry it in a laptop case....

If you do not want the folding capability.....there are a lot of pistol carbine choices out there....but I think really like the portability....and at $400 it is not too crazy expensive....a half oz of gold.

Kel-Tec also has some very compact folding .223 rifles....that use AR15 magazines!!! Very neat little guns....again - can fold in half and pack around...

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

I searched for one for several months early last year, but all the dealers were sold out and there was no estimate on when they could get them in. I finally found one advertised on a local message board and did a FTF transaction for $400. It's a nice gun, but you've got to make sure to keep it clean. After buying it, I didn't bother to clean it before shooting, and I had a bunch of misfires and jams... I tore into it after I got back from the range and it looked like it had been dropped in a sandbox by the previous owner. After a thorough cleaning it's become much more reliable.

The sights aren't the best, but I can easily do silver dollar sized groups at 25 yards, and average around 4 inches at 50 yards. I haven't tried it at 100 yards, but I can see 12 inch groups being pretty easy... good enough for center of mass shots.

The foldabilty factor is one of the main reasons I picked it over other 9mm carbines, since I bought it for a traveling gun to keep in my car. I've got a bunch of Glock magazines for it, including a couple 33 rounds ones. Only problem there is that I've got an XD 9 Tactical instead of a Glock for my main pistol, so I don't get the benefit of interchangeable magazines.

It's nice and easy to unfold and get ready for action, and I think it handles pretty well too. Over all, I'm happy with it.:ok:

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

Check out Mech Tech- use your Glock lower unit and the Mech Tech carbine upper when you want the pistol back you just hit the release button and put the slide back on. check thread

http://www.mechtechsys.com/glock.html

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

I've looked at these but I want:
1) Stand-alone carbine as companion to my pistol
2) I like the folding idea of the KelTec Sub 2000.....very compact.

Thanks for the lead!

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

If I grab a rifle....a .308 is coming out of the business end.

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

I shot one in 40 a few months back and honestly I thought it felt terrible. It does fold up really compact though.

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

My friend has one that we took out a couple of times.

Its his BUG OUT gun. He bought the configuration that accepts Glock Mags so it matchs his G23.

I thought it was OK after he got it straightened out. He had to send it back to Kel-tech for A FLUFF AND BUFF. Trigger was jacked up.

Its Fun and, it turns APCs into extra special APCs---Auto Pisto Cartridge. I like it for the car and bag or shooting cans. Not big game or 1st best choice for Social work.

His is accurate enough and I wouldn't throw it out but, I wouldn't seek one out.

E-A

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

If you are looking to extend your range, perhaps a new barrel from Lone Wolf for your Glock 17 would do the trick. You could convert from a 4 1/2" barrel to a 6 inch barrel with cut rifling. It would increase your velocity and still make packable unit.

To improve your targeting you might add a Crimson Trace grip sight or add a Burris Fast Fire sight. I have to admit that I have no experience with either of those sights, but I do have experience with the concept. I have a 9 mm with a BSA red dot sight and a flashlight clamped to the side. I use it for dogs. A couple of months ago I got the drop on a coyote. It was about 40 yards out. The hits were easy to make. It didn't take long to finish him off, and the energy level of the round was plenty good. They were hand loads: 147 grain gold dots. Mind you, it was dark out, and the hits were made using the flashlight to spot the dog's eyes reflecting back at me.

I would post a picture, but it's a little bit gory. I don't want to shock anybody.

If I still had my Glock 17 this is exactly what I would do. I looked into one of these carbines and have always and consistently decided against trying to buy one.

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

I like 9mm carbines...accurate, still relatively quiet out of a 16 inch barrel, cheaper to shoot, no recoil to speak of, steps up 9mm performance well into the 357 Sig range.

My favorite is the Ruger PC-9. Shoots half-dollar sized groups @ 50 yards. Steel 20 round Mecgar mags are available.

Mine likes Winchester 147 JHP and Winchester 147 Ranger T (Black Talon).

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

ruprick, are you looking a pistol caliber carbines in general, or something specific for the 9mm? I have a similar need too, but I need another AK more and the firearm budget stretches just so far!

Once I get that taken care of, I'm strongly considering the Marlin 1894 in .357 mag. Of course, it isn't anywhere near as compact as the Kel-Tec folders in pistol caliber or .223. The future SIL is wanting one of the SU-16 series.

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

In my opinion...9mm carbines are fun but not real practical

again in my opinion Keltek .....does make both a fold up .223 rifle and a .223 pistol that take AR mags that makes for a ton more firepower,range,accuracy,ETC

Keltek guns sometimes do need a little bit of buffing on feed ramps ect but other than that they are very inovative and good shooters

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

Practical? The 147 Ranger Ts work just dandy on these guys which run around my back yard at night...

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

By Practical i mean

If a 9mm will do the job ...use a pistol...anything 9mm is sub 100yds..and brings to the table all the shortcommings of a pistol cartrige

for the same $ and versitility you can do a 223 folder and have extended range and all the advantages that come with a high velocity rifle cartrige


that being said if i had a need for a 9mm pistol cartrige carbine style gun i use my Calico M-900 or M-950

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

The .223 is WAY TOO LOUD for my purposes. Will scare the hell out of nearby neighbors and get a visit from the local police.

The 9mm carbine however is a lot QUIETER by comparison and sounds no louder than a 22LR and not as loud as the firecrackers and bottlerockets the neighborhood kids shoot off around here from time-to-time.

And try shooting your .223 pistol or rifle without hearing protection. Don't even need hearing protection with the 9mm carbine.

Re: Kel-Tec "Sub-2000" 9mm Carbine
 

I keep one in my car. 17rd magazine in the handle, and 33rd velcroed to the stock. 50 rounds total at my ready.

Ergonomics are horrible (sight picture and cheek weld). Trigger is bad, sights aren't that great, but... capacity and concealability are AWESOME.

BTW... as a lefty I get sprayed with hot gases and spent brass. Just a warning if you are a south paw.